Zvinetsoi zvomunhu oga zvinogona kugadziriswa nokudzidza upenyu, uye nei Mwari asingafaniri kuunzwa pachikuva? Kukurukurirana naLeonid Ogorodnov, munyori we agiodrama methodology, iyo inoshandura 10 gore rino.
Psychologies: "Agio" chiGiriki che "mutsvene", asi chii chinonzi hagiodrama?
Leonid Ogorodnov: Pakazvarwa tekinoroji iyi, takaronga hupenyu hwevatsvene kuburikidza ne psychodrama, ndiko kuti, kuvandudzwa kunoshamisa pane yakapihwa chirongwa. Zvino ini ndaizotsanangura hagiodrama zvakanyanya: ibasa repfungwa neTsika Inoyera.
Pamusoro pehupenyu, izvi zvinosanganisira kuiswa kwemifananidzo, zvinyorwa zvemadzibaba vatsvene, mimhanzi yechechi, uye zvivakwa. Somuenzaniso, mudzidzi wangu, nyanzvi yezvepfungwa Yulia Trukhanova, akaisa mukati metemberi.
Kuisa mukati - zvinogoneka here?
Zvinokwanisika kuisa zvinhu zvose zvinogona kuonekwa sechinyorwa mupfungwa yakafara, kureva, sehurongwa hwakarongeka hwezviratidzo. Mu psychodrama, chero chinhu chinogona kuwana izwi rayo, kuratidza hunhu.
Semuenzaniso, mukugadzirwa kwe "Temberi" kwaive nemabasa: vharanda, temberi, iconostasis, chandelier, bharanda, matanho etemberi. Mutori wechikamu, uyo akasarudza basa re "Matanho kuTemberi", akawana nzwisiso: akaziva kuti iyi haisi masitepisi chete, aya matanho anotungamira kubva kuhupenyu hwezuva nezuva kuenda kunyika yezvitsvene.
Vatori vechikamu chezvigadzirwa - ndivanaani?
Mubvunzo wakadaro unosanganisira kuvandudzwa kwekudzidziswa, apo chinangwa chevateereri chakatemwa uye chigadzirwa chakagadzirirwa icho. Asi hapana chandakaita. Ndakapinda muhagiodrama nekuti yaindinakidza.
Naizvozvo ndakaisa chiziviso, uye ndakadanawo shamwari dzangu ndokuti: “Huyai, munongoda bedzi kubhadhara kamuri, ngatitambe tione zvinoitika.” Uye vaifarirawo vakauya, vakanga vakawanda kwazvo. Mushure mezvose, kune mafreaks anofarira zvidhori kana Byzantine matsvene mapenzi ezana ramakore rechi XNUMX. Zvakanga zvakafanana nehagiodrama.
Agiodrama - nzira yekurapa kana yekudzidzisa?
Kwete chete kurapwa, asiwo dzidzo: vatori vechikamu havangonzwisisi chete, asi vanowana ruzivo rwemunhu pamusoro pekuti utsvene chii, vaapositori, vakafira kutenda, vatsvene uye vamwe vatsvene.
Nezve psychotherapy, nerubatsiro rwehagiodrama munhu anogona kugadzirisa matambudziko epfungwa, asi nzira yekuigadzirisa inosiyana neyakagamuchirwa mu classical psychodrama: mukuenzanisa nayo, hagiodrama, zvechokwadi, inopera.
Agiodrama inokubvumira kuti uwane kutendeukira kuna Mwari, enda kupfuura yako "Ini", kuva kupfuura yako "Ini"
Ndeipi pfungwa yekusuma vatsvene munhandare, kana iwe uchigona kungoisa amai nababa? Hachisi chakavanzika kuti mazhinji ematambudziko edu ane chekuita nehukama hwevabereki nemwana. Mhinduro kumatambudziko akadaro iri mumunda we "Ini" yedu.
Agiodrama ibasa rakarongeka rine transcendental, munyaya iyi, mabasa echitendero, emweya. "Transcendent" zvinoreva "kuyambuka muganhu". Zvamazvirokwazvo, muganhu uri pakati pomunhu naMwari unogona kuuyambuka bedzi nerubatsiro rwaMwari, sezvo wakagadzwa naYe.
Asi, somuenzaniso, munyengetero kutaura kuna Mwari, uye “munyengetero” ibasa rinopfuura. Agiodrama inokubvumira kuona kutendeuka uku, kuenda - kana kumboedza - kupfuura miganhu yako "Ini", kuva kupfuura "Ini" yako.
Sezviri pachena, nharidzano yakadaro inoiswa nokuda kwavo vamene zvikurukuru navatendi?
Hongu, kunyanya vatendi, asi kwete chete. Kunyange zvakadaro "tsitsi", vanofarira. Asi basa rinovakwa zvakasiyana. Muzviitiko zvakawanda, basa rehagiodramatic nevatendi rinogona kunzi kugadzirira kwakakura kweKupfidza.
Vatendi vane, semuenzaniso, kukahadzika kana kutsamwa, kunyunyutira Mwari. Izvi zvinovadzivisa kunyengetera, vachikumbira Mwari chimwe chinhu: sei kuita chikumbiro kune mumwe munhu wandakatsamwira? Iyi inyaya apo mabasa maviri anonamatirana: basa rinopfuura remunhu anonamata uye basa repfungwa reakatsamwa. Uye zvino chinangwa che hagiodrama ndechekuparadzanisa mabasa aya.
Sei zvakakosha kuparadzanisa mabasa?
Nokuti kana isu tisingagoverani mabasa akasiyana, ipapo kuvhiringidzika kunomuka mukati medu, kana, mumashoko aJung, "yakaoma", kureva, tangle yezvakawanda zvekunamata maitiro. Uyo anoitika naye haazive nezvenyonganiso iyi, asi anozviona - uye chiitiko ichi hachina kunaka. Uye kuita kubva pachinzvimbo ichi kazhinji hazvigoneke.
Kazhinji mufananidzo waMwari ihodgepodge yekutya uye tariro yakaunganidzwa kubva kuhama neshamwari.
Kana kuedza kwekuda kunotiunzira kukunda kwekamwe chete, ipapo "yakaoma" inodzoka uye inowedzera kurwadza. Asi kana tikaparadzanisa mabasa uye kunzwa manzwi avo, saka tinogona kunzwisisa mumwe nomumwe wavo uye, zvichida, kubvumirana navo. Mune classical psychodrama, chinangwa chakadaro chinoiswawo.
Basa iri riri kufamba sei?
Pane imwe nguva takaronga hupenyu hweMukuru Martyr Eustathius Placis, uyo Kristu akazviratidza muchimiro cheNondo. Mutengi ari pachinzvimbo cheEustathius, achiona Deer, akangoerekana asangana nekushushikana kwakanyanya.
Ndakatanga kubvunza, uye zvakazoitika kuti akabatanidza Deer naambuya vake: akanga ari mukadzi asina hanya, zvaaida kazhinji zvaipesana, uye zvakanga zvakaoma kuti musikana aite izvi. Mushure meizvozvo, isu takamisa iyo chaiyo hagiodramatic chiito uye takaenda kune yekirasi psychodrama pamadingindira emhuri.
Sezvo takabata nehukama pakati paambuya nemuzukuru (mabasa epfungwa), takadzokera kuhupenyu, kuEustathius neDeer (transcendental roles). Uye ipapo mutengi kubva pachinzvimbo chemutsvene akakwanisa kutendeukira kuDeer nerudo, pasina kutya uye kunetseka. Saka, takarambana mabasa, takapa Mwari - Bogovo, uye ambuya - ambuya.
Uye matambudziko api anopedzwa nevasingatendi?
Muenzaniso: Mukwikwidzi anodaidzwa kuita basa remusande anozvininipisa, asi basa racho harisi kushanda. Sei? Anodziviswa nekuzvikudza, kwaasina kana kumbofungira. Chigumisiro chebasa munyaya iyi chingasava mhinduro kune dambudziko, asi, pane zvinopesana, kuumbwa kwayo.
Musoro wenyaya wakakosha kune vese vatendi nevasingatendi ndewekubviswa kwemafungidziro kubva kuna Mwari. Wese munhu ane ruzivo zvishoma nezve psychology anoziva kuti murume kana mukadzi anowanzo kukanganisa mufananidzo wemumwe wake, achiendesa maitiro aamai kana baba kwaari.
Chimwe chinhu chakafanana chinoitika nemufananidzo waMwari - kazhinji ihodgepodge yekutya uye tariro inounganidzwa kubva kuhama dzose neshamwari. Mune hagiodrama tinogona kubvisa izvi zvinofungidzirwa, uye ipapo mukana wekutaurirana naMwari uye nevanhu unodzorerwa.
Wakauya sei kuhagiodrama? Uye nei vakasiya psychodrama?
Handina kwandakaenda: Ini ndinotungamira mapoka e psychodrama, ndinodzidzisa uye ndinoshanda mumwe nemumwe ne psychodrama nzira. Asi munhu wose mubasa rake ari kutsvaga «chip», saka ndakatanga kutarisa. Uye kubva pane zvandaiziva nekuona, ndaifarira mythodrama zvakanyanya.
Uyezve, aive matenderedzwa akandifarira, uye kwete ngano dzega, uye zvinodikanwa kuti kutenderera kwakadaro kunopera nekuguma kwenyika: kuberekwa kwepasirese, kushanya kwevamwari, kuzunungusa kusagadzikana kwepasirese, uye yaifanira kuguma nechimwe chinhu.
Kana tikaparadzanisa mabasa uye kunzwa manzwi avo, tinogona kunzwisisa mumwe nomumwe wavo uye, zvichida, kubvumirana navo
Zvakazoitika kuti kune mashoma mashoma akadaro engano masisitimu. Ndakatanga nengano dzeScandinavia, ndichibva ndachinjira ku“ngano” dzechiJudha nedzechiKristu, ndikatanga kutenderera maererano neTestamende Yekare. Ipapo ndakafunga nezveTestamente Itsva. Asi ndaidavira kuti Mwari haafaniri kuunzwa pachikuva kuitira kuti tisamudenha, kwete kuti manzwiro edu evanhu nevavariro dzedu ndezvaAri.
Uye muTestamente Itsva, Kristu anoshanda kwese kwese, umo humwari hunogara pamwe chete nehunhu hwevanhu. Uye ndakafunga: Mwari haagoni kuiswa - asi iwe unogona kuisa vanhu vari pedyo naye. Uye ava ndivo vatsvene. Pandakatarisa hupenyu hwe "mythological" maziso, ndakashamiswa nekudzika kwawo, kunaka uye zvakasiyana-siyana zvezvinoreva.
Hagiodrama yakachinja chero chinhu muhupenyu hwako here?
Ehe. Handikwanise kutaura kuti ndave nhengo yekereke: handisi nhengo yechero parishi uye handitore chikamu muhupenyu hwechechi, asi ndinoreurura uye ndinodya chirairo kanenge kana pagore. Ndichinzwa kuti handina nguva dzose ruzivo rwakakwana kuti ndichengetedze mamiriro eOrthodox ehupenyu, ndakaenda kunodzidza zvebhaibheri paSt. Tikhon Orthodox Humanitarian University.
Uye kubva kune nyanzvi yekuona, iyi ndiyo nzira yekuzviziva: basa rakarongeka rine mabasa epamusoro. Izvi zvinokurudzira zvikuru. Ndakaedza kuunza transcendental mabasa mune isiri yechitendero psychodrama, asi hazvina kundikochekera.
Ndinofarira vatsvene. Ini handizive zvichaitika kune uyu musande mukugadzirwa, maitiro emanzwiro uye zvinorehwa nemuiti weiyi basa achawana. Hapasati pave neimwe nyaya yandisati ndadzidza chimwe chinhu chitsva kwandiri.